Why I Skipped Church Today
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I skipped church today. I skipped church last week too. Put aside for a minute (or two) why I would go on Saturday, and let’s just talk about this for a bit.
I didn’t grow up going to church. Oh, there were a few occasions, like when my grandparents took us – or my parents wanted to appease their parents, but for the most part, church was a foreign concept to my family.
Several years ago, after multiple attempts to straighten out my life, I found God. Not in the usual manner, mind you, but in a more spiritual, less religious sort of way. I had stuck my toe into the water of various world-views: Buddhism, Scientology, Disco, Bowling Leagues, et cetera – but they all left me feeling empty.
After a Summer of independent Bible reading, I developed this personal relationship with God. It was really great! Without the rules, traditions, and politics of Western denominations and the associated churchianity, I began to find some purpose and meaning in my life. Through the creation story (actual, or metaphorical), I discovered the beauty of a weekly sabbatical. It was awesome! One day out of seven to recharge, relax, release, and renew. Perfect.
Yet, despite the great days of solitude, worship, meditation, and relaxation – often spent in the forest, or on some mountaintop – there was something missing. Community!
We are social creatures. We live in social communities. We thrive in communion and common-unity with others. But where does a Bible-reading, God-following, independent-thinker find community?
Traditional churches often lack the naked purity of an unadulterated belief structure. Years of institutionalized religion has corrupted most churches. I mean, there are so many unscriptural doctrines that have become a part of the cultural norm – most people wouldn’t even recognize their churches if those doctrines were stripped away. Then, of course, there are the traditions, worship modalities, and social customs – that have absolutely nothing to do with a journey of faith – but have become so ingrained, that it is impossible to remove them.
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Though I resisted, eventually I found myself sitting in a traditional worship service on a non-traditional day. It was OK, and sometimes very inspiring. For the most part it was inspiring. And then I got involved. Not in a casual, behind the scene sort of way, but as a leader.
I was asked to be a youth leader, and that was a lot of fun. Then I became a part of the leadership team at a really fun young adult ministry in Southern California. I spoke, I led, I cast vision – it really was great! But through that experience, I was inspired to attend the seminary and enter full-time pastoral ministry. Now, this was scary!!
Immediately after the seminary, The Wife and I ended up in a small, conservative church in Rock Springs, Wyoming. [cue the Twilight Zone theme music]. It was a good experience – just like open heart surgery can be a good experience – painful, but necessary. In fact, it nearly killed me. But that’s OK, it nearly killed those poor people too. What a year – 15 months actually, but who’s counting?
From here we were invited a to start a church from scratch. We had two offers. One in Minnesota, and one in Colorado. If you’ve ever been to Minnesota, you’ll know why we chose Colorado! 
Those five years in Colorado Springs were awesome! Very hard, a lot of work – but incredible nonetheless! From the very beginning, we set the stage to be a community of faith – without the preconceived notions of what a “church” should look like. Unlike any church you’ve ever seen, and unlike any unchurch you’ve ever seen. We were a community for people who had given up on church, but were still looking for God! And it was fun!
At the end of five years, we were about 250 strong. Not in the traditional sense, mind you – and therefore without any “official” recognition. Only about 90-100 gathered together at any one point, and the majority of people were not typical “Christians.” We had recovering, and not-so-recovering meth-addicts, alcoholics, and others. We had recovering Christians, people from the GLBTQ community, regular people, esoteric people, introverts, extroverts, kids, seniors, tall, and short people. It was really great! Really fun.
When we first started, I had this notion that people who don’t attend church, but are still seeking God (people like me), would beat a path to our community. I also thought – given the rhetoric of The Church – that the denomination would throw resources our way. Unfortunately, neither of these premises turned out to be a reality. So, at the end of our five years of funding, we had to move on.
We landed in Oregon. Home! Well, for me anyway. I left Oregon in 1995 and was thrilled at the opportunity to return in 2007. Five generations of family can’t be wrong. We took a position pastoring a more typical church. We were told it was progressive, it isn’t. They thought I was safe, I’m not. It didn’t work out – and unfortunately it was really painful figuring that out.
So, here I sit, on a Saturday morning, while my family is at church. I’m glad my kids are there – and I wish I’d had that experience as a kid. But it isn’t church they are at – they are just in a church building, attending another event. I don’t crave events – I crave community.
That’s why I’m not there this morning. It is hard for me (if not impossible), to have community with people who don’t think, act, or envision life the way I do. If I’m not embraced in my uniqueness, why would I want to be a part of them? If I am rebuffed for seeking a higher spirituality, a more compassionate social attitude, or a less formal liturgy, then why would I want to be on that team?
If I don’t feel safe; if it isn’t safe; if they don’t seek safety as a value – then why would I place myself in that space?
It isn’t better behavior I seek. It isn’t eternal salvation that motivates me. I don’t fear eternal damnation. I certainly don’t seek exclusivity. So, what is there that would make me want to be a part of your club?
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Club?! Exactly – club. There is a creed, a dress standard, and certain rituals that do little to bring me into relationship with my Creator. If I don’t adapt to their “standards” then I am quickly ostracized – or physically removed. This sort of exclusivity is against almost every value system I subscribe to.
I value diversity, inclusivity, and transparency. I value integrity – not just honesty, but pure integrity – where our belief systems and our practices are in increasing, ever-growing, alignment. I don’t want to be a part of a community that is so afraid of the unknown, that they never (or rarely) step our of their comfort-zone. I don’t want to be a part of a community that denigrates compassionate, moral obligations, and efforts to provide healthcare to everyone. I don’t want to be a part of a community that is unsympathetic to the plight of the poor born outside of our borders.
I need to be the part of a community that values authenticity, spiritual growth (at all costs), and personal, daily salvation – the kind that gets people through this day – just “one day at a time.” I need to be some place that is real and experiential.
I’m looking for a community for people who have given up on church, but are still seeking God. Because that’s who I am. I haven’t’ found that – and that’s why I skipped church today.
Why do you skip church? Or not. Maybe a better question is, why doesn’t church interest you?
___________________
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You've got @stevenguymcdade out of his chair, running around the room, and cheering for you.
We stopped going to church when it became a chore. We were involved in leading a worship service, but it became a chore that we didn't look forward to and that didn't seem to be doing anyone else any good.
We also stopped because most of the business of this church was about keeping the church financially alive.
That was a year ago. We didn't want to immediately drop into another traditional church, regardless of whether there's one out there that might be a better fit. We want to find something different. We just aren't sure what that will look like either. We've experimented with doing family worship at home; we've visited another house church/communal living group a couple of times as well. But we're not sure where we're going yet. I do agree that community is key.
@stevenguymcdade wants to know if you are also watching football.
Not watching football.
Theologically, I'm pretty conservative. Probably more conservative than most people at church (as judgmental as that sounds). Just trying to find my way.
If church was just the church service, I'd agree with you. Sitting in a pew, watching and listening to the professionals up front doesn't do it for me. Sabbath/Sunday school is an entirely different proposition for me, though. Find a group that is willing to challenge the sacred cows, willing to ask tough questions, and willing to withhold judgment of those who do. Find people who are seeking truth, wherever it leads them.
You might not find this at your local church. You might have to look around a little bit. I'm not convinced that you have to look outside church to find it. But you can.
Hey, we could meet at Starbucks or Insomnia.
I totally agree Brent. We have limited options here in the sticks.
To me, it's less about information and intellectual stimulation though. It has much to do with being real, authentic, relational, and experiential – with a dose or two of experimental thrown in. We'll probably end up starting a house church and duplicate some of the best things we had once at http://www.mycommonground.org
BTW, this is already the second "coffee" invite I've gotten from this post. I'm pretty open next week – anytime!
Ha! As it so happens, I'm pretty open this coming week, too. Something about Thanksgiving, holidays, and vacation days.
You headed this direction? (Take it to e-mail?)
I enjoyed our coffee break Brent – thanks!
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Actually Brent, I forgot to mention – that I wasn't even thinking of the worship service/experience as I wrote the above post. It had more to do with church as a community and not an event.
Well now. I see you have finally come over to the dark side.
, seriously though, I find that not having doctrines and worrying about the finances and how many are coming to church has freed me. You are right about if the churches stripped away the creeds, they would not HAVE a church. I'm reading a great book called "Saving Jesus From the Church". Yet again, it confirms a very liberal approach but more in line with spiritual awakening than accepting a creed or doctrine.
What still amazes me about institutional forms of church are that they are unwilling to let go of the past and live with God in the present.
Thanks for your support Steven. Actually, I, and my family, have some pretty clear theology – we're just having trouble finding others we can have diverse, yet common, unity with.
Allright Gary,
Add another coffee invite. Hopefully your kidneys can take the abuse. I was hoping to meet up with you at Idea Camp (which was very good btw). It has been harder and harder to drag my behind to church lately. I have not found many local conversation partners that would even understand where I am coming from. I tend to come from a theologically liberal position (whatever that means.) I don't need agreement but I don't want to be dismissed.
I get that!
Totally relate!
We'll get together soon!
I enjoyed our chat together Michael! It was good to meet you and your wife too!
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Yes it was good to chat. Hopefully our paths will cross again in the future.
God is working in our lives, Gary. Maybe He is calling you to either bring a higher fellowship at your local group, or to seek out a worship and fellowship at another location? I wish you and your family could be here! (Great Falls has the states best medical facilities, and the church is alive with young families as well as a healthy balance of all ages.)
Thanks for your blog today! :^ )
I believe there are others who are seeking for "something better"… who are following a deeply spiritual calling in search for a closer relationship with God (as they understand Him). We are a community united by a common bond. But few, if any, in that fellowship share in the joy of having a personal relationship with the Lord of the Sabbath.
Having just relocated to a new area, I felt impressed to search out fellowship with Sabbath keepers at the SDA church. I was swept away by the Spirit of love and praise there. It was almost a culture shock for me, Gary. I have pretty well been out of going to church for several years. But there was something about the worship and fellowship at the Great Falls SDA church that has made me want to come back.
I'm so glad you're finding that Terre. In the past ten years I've been to dozens of churches – of all faiths. There are only a handful that had that flame – and some of those were itinerant/transient gatherings.
I've tasted the gold standard, I can't settle for less.
Not sure how to comment, but I hear you. Church is a game and we have to play by the rules. If you think Scappoose is traditional or conservative you need to try Gaston. I remember the first time I wore pants to church. There is one side saying no Kathy, and the other saying if Kathy can do it we are going to, too. Who would think we could get so tied up just in clothing! And then about the more serious issues… no I won't go into those. I have a friend who doesn't want her folks to hear her son eats meat, and another who is very upset of his daughters upcoming marriage to a meat eater (although he comes from a fine outstanding SDA family, and I told him that he just out ruled Jesus as good enough for his daughter ), and a man in my SS class who is afraid his son is lost because he can't give up his coffee. (Maybe I should bring my turkey leftovers to potluck next week. But wouldn't that stir up another kettle about obscure rules of the SDA. ) I love all of these people, they are my friends and Christian brothers and sisters, and I don't mince words trying to show them the truth…. but in the end I am a sinner attending church with sinners and all of us are just trying to make sense of this whole world. btw you are a great writer- while I just ramble on.Remember tradition and culture are so ingrained, they are all most impossible to change.
I think your frustration and most peoples including my own has a lot more to do with consumerism than why we don't go to church. We're looking for a church that suits our fancy rather than looking to come together with a group of people who are all a mess not matter the methods they use to "do" church.
We'd be better off if we could just accept whose there, find a way into their hearts, and learn to worship God in whatever format is being used.
Instead we gripe over the way things are… I think of what I heard Rich Mullins say one time. To him there was nothing more beautiful than walking into some little country church and hearing a dozen or so people singing along with an out-of-tune piano. It's like a miracle that folk would just be worshipping God in spite of the fact that they are all screwed up.
So I say stop throwing your pity party and be the church. If you can't go to whatever church is in your area, be the church. Find two or three others, start gathering and quit complaining about what isn't.. And just be.
And, maybe better yet, go to a little broken church and be a blessing… Either way, I don't think bemoaning what we are not is the answer. I think we have to become the solution by engaging, blessing, praying, hoping, and talking faith.
Rise up my brother. And make a difference. Your awesome! And God is Good. And I love you. Nothing personal. Just some thoughts.
And thanks for challenging me to think.
Thanks for the reply Jim – I didn't realize you were a reader here. I always appreciate the way you think!
I agree, consumerism is much to blame for this. I thank Jim Brauer (http://bit.ly/8e3zTp) for helping me to discover this. But let me be clear, I'm not the one seeking to consume, I just prefer to not be a part of a group that is mostly focused on being fed. Jesus was very clear in Luke 15 that His role, and ours, was to go out of the church and feed those who are hungry. Our role is to not focus on the 99 already in the church.
This has much to do with my ouster in Scappoose. I refused to feed the people. Instead, I focused on teaching them to feed themselves. Many were responding well to this – but these were people who often had no voice, didn't serve in leadership, and weren't finding meaning in the status quo church. Unfortunately, there was a large group of people who didn't understand, or want this. And their complaints, and the weakness of leadership, forced me to leave.
I do accept those who are there. They apparently are getting what they want – not necessarily what they need (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj-xZ-qzmQI) – but a significant portion of what they want (see consumerism above).
The problem Jim, as I see it, is that we "want/need" different things. When I need to go downtown, I take the train or bus. Standing at the transit station, I study the maps and schedules and look for the right vehicle to take me to my intended destination. It would be foolish for me to get on the wrong train and then shrug my shoulders saying, "Oh well, I can't moan about it. I'll just have to make the best of this situation." It would be much smarter to make sure I'm on the right bus to begin with. And if I'm not, I should get off, retrace my route, and get on the right bus back at the transit center.
Blackaby says, "When you find that you're lost, go back to the last place you knew you had direction.,/i>" That's what I'm seeking right now.
I don't believe I'm throwing any kind of "pity-party." I'm just trying to figure out if I'm on the right bus, if it's going in the right direction, and if not, what am I going to do about it. And even more importantly, follow the spiritual calling, to be in the right place.
I know that I was called to be in Scappoose. I know that I was being obedient to the message I was called to speak – despite my flaws and mistakes. I know "they" rejected that message as being too painful, and I know that my employer had a "failure of nerve" and failed to stand behind me. I also know that I was released from that calling about 3-4 months before they tried to get rid of me. I would go back in a heartbeat if God asked me to. Without my employment on the line, it would be much easier to speak the message they need to hear. However, my family is not up to it, and I've been told to "shake off the dust."
For the sake of continuity, for the sake of healing, and mostly for the sake of our kids, we immediately started attending the church across the river. It's a good church – you used to work with the senior pastor, and you know the guy who took it from it's small country roots and led it to become the most significant church in the area. They are good people, and we are making some good friends there. I have nothing against anyone. I'm just not so sure we're going in the same direction.
Jim Collins, in the research for his book, Good to Great, found that the key to successful organizations is Level 5 leadership (http://bit.ly/8Bso4S). As the article I linked above (http://bit.ly/4Psu4c), talks about, most growing churches depend on the personality/ego of the leader. That's what people want, but that's not Level 5 leadership.
* First, as I shared with a friend on Facebook, I want to protect my kids from becoming cultural Christians, focused on churchianity – without the deeper Elijah experience.
* Second, this bus isn't going where I need to go. I need to be broken, unhinged, and transformed. This can only happen in the presence of real, authentic, intimate, vulnerable, experimental, experiential, and transparent relationships. (And I'm pretty sure it can't happen within the confines of people who criticize my compassion for the poor, the immigrants, and those whose sexual orientation is different than mine!)
Third, I'm a pioneer and a maverick. I'll probably have to start something. <sigh>
I'm still in Adullum's cave. God is tending to my wounds. Just wait.
Thanks to you too Jim! Thanks for sharing your heart. Keep up the good work!
Well, I hope you can start something or at least impact something. I just now that all the literature and all the hype about what the church should be has become exhausting to me. And at it's most basic level I believe the church is when two or three are gathered in the name of Christ. And I would say that 99% of the time those 2 or 3 won't agree on everything. But if they can agree to gather, pray, seek God's face, wait for his direction and then go. We'll that can make all the difference. Who are your 2 or 3?
Hey Jim, this is where I continue you apply the "Serenity Prayer." I don't have any control over the brokenness of the church, so I let go. But I do have control over where I choose to associate. I am merely seeking wisdom on what works best for me and my family.
There must be a reason for all of this literature Jim – and I think you know that.
Remember, I didn't leave voluntarily – I was thrown out – and my family was basically disfellowshipped. Instead of demonstrating unconditional love, during our time of need, we were kicked out. Why would I even want to be a part of an organization like that?
We are looking for the two or three – and some interesting discussions are taking place. You can see the seeds of a few of those in the comments to this post – and the ones that follow.
Thanks for getting back to me – I was afraid you were going to leave our conversation unfinished…
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Not sure how to comment, but I hear you. Church is a game and we have to play by the rules. If you think Scappoose is traditional or conservative you need to try Gaston. I remember the first time I wore pants to church. There is one side saying no Kathy, and the other saying if Kathy can do it we are going to, too. Who would think we could get so tied up just in clothing! And then about the more serious issues… no I won't go into those. I have a friend who doesn't want her folks to hear her son eats meat, and another who is very upset of his daughters upcoming marriage to a meat eater (although he comes from a fine outstanding SDA family, and I told him that he just out ruled Jesus as good enough for his daughter ), and a man in my SS class who is afraid his son is lost because he can't give up his coffee. (Maybe I should bring my turkey leftovers to potluck next week. But wouldn't that stir up another kettle about obscure rules of the SDA. ) I love all of these people, they are my friends and Christian brothers and sisters, and I don't mince words trying to show them the truth…. but in the end I am a sinner attending church with sinners and all of us are just trying to make sense of this whole world.
btw you are a great writer- while I just ramble on.
Remember tradition and culture are so ingrained, they are all most impossible to change.
Terre Gift
Two weeks in a row??? Does that mean a detour, or just a rest stop and that there is more journey ahead….?
Brady Schroer
Once you have kids, you always have to remember "what message and I sending them". Your number one priority now is being a dad. Keep that in mind.
Gary Walter
@Terre, definitely more journey ahead. A little sneak peak in the blog comments.
@Brady. And that's one of the primary reasons why I want them to have an authentic relationship with Christ and to protect them from churchianity.
Also Brady, regular readers of my blog know that being a man w/ a "Dad Attitude" is my #1 priority.
To do that, I have to take care of myself, take care of my marriage, and lead the way – spiritually, emotionally, physically, socially, intellectually, etc.
Jason Seiber
Hey Gary, I read your amazingly candid article and all the comments to this point in time with deep interest and a growing sense of sadness. I am not the world's finest sleuth, but I cannot help sensing the deep hurt, frustration, and sadness that borders on despair in your words.
I know what you are feeling, Gary. I have lived a very similar story, as you well know. On one side, I see you looking for something authentic, open, and constant as opposed to acted, closed minded, and event oriented. But I also hear you saying "no" to repeated invitations to join those who in their hurt have dumped beliefs you profoundly cling to and set the social sails of a spiritual ship with no clear doctrinal keel, theological rudder, or eschatological compass.
I may not be getting all this right, but I hear you struggling to figure out where you fit in? Where you should invest your dreams, passion, and labor? Where you should pour yourself out for Christ? Where you can grow in openness, authenticity, and community while maintaining a deep faithfulness to the tangible lordship of God? If this is even close to correct, all I can say is you do not journey alone. I'm walking with you, and through prayer, my arm is around your shoulder. I love you brother.
Ray Bankes
Gary U know Im on your other side walking a similar journey! Follow the Holy Spirit's lead and have courage to go where He leads you no matter what man says or thinks of you.
Anyonymous
I read your didn't go to church statement. I would want to encourage you as you did us several years back to go back, start a cell group of messed up people. We have now four cell groups and we had one teenage group that had 15 kids last summer. We are mixed denomination and I do not have an agenda only the Lord's. The battle is fierce and you are a great worry for the enemy. Just want to give you a word of encouragement and say someone in Colorado cares.
Update:
I let my Dad read this tonight – and all the comments. He got really quiet. I asked what he thought, how he felt, etc.
Basically, he agreed. He wanted to know when we were going to get something started…
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Unadulterated words, some true words man. You made my day!
Thank you!
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If everyone with great passion and different points of view drops out of our more traditional churches what is left but bland conformity, a church that never changes. We need people like you to challenge the status quo. If you bring something new to the mix that is good. Why not try to invigorate the church you're in? I know people that have been to every church in this town, seriously, they are looking and looking for the perfect fit. No such thing exists.
You say you don't want to be part of an exclusive club and value diversity but you say " It is hard for me (if not impossible), to have community with people who don’t think, act, or envision life the way I do" How do your reconcile that? You want diversity but have no tolerance for those who do not have the same spiritual fire as you or it is not expressed in the same way. Some of us are at church struggling to find our way, to get one step farther along our spiritual journey…that is why we are there. To have other believers to struggle with.
And since you put it out here and I'm sure you want an honest discussion. Why not go with the wife and kids? I can't imagine sending my family off to church to stay home by myself. How is that a better spiritual experience? Even if you personally don't get a lot out of it, your kids will be thrilled to have dad there singing 'flying to the mission land' and learning the stories from the Bible. You don't have to stay for church if it bothers you but what does it hurt to hang with your kids…you said yourself you are glad they're there. If it is ok for your children why is it not ok for you?
My dad never went to church because he said that the church was full of hypocrites. Yes it is, and sinners and people that on a daily basis make mistakes. I was hurt as a child that my dad's dislike for the church as an institution was more moving to him than need of his daughters to have him go with them.
And what dress code? My big boys go in slouchy jeans and t-shirts and no one has ever said a word. I wear jewelry as a Sabbath School leader, not a peep. Pants, cool no problem, flip flops ok. If there is a dress code no one told me. Now it drives me crazy when the boys wear slouchy jeans and t-shirts but the rest of the church doesn't seem to care and like they always tell me "God doesn't care what we look like on the outside" Yes they now spout back all that I taught them like weapons…
Until you find or start the church that is a perfect fit for you personally I say give the one your wife and kids go to a shot…its better than being alone every Sabbath morning.
So there you have it, my humble opinion on the subject. Hubby thinks I should keep my opinions to myself but well, its not really how I'm wired, lol! And don't think I'm getting defensive because we attend the same church, that is not the case at all…just wanting to offer another viewpoint, the only one I have, mine.
In all sincerity I hope I see you Sabbath, the church could use more like you. Kim
My recent post Practicing Thankfulness…
Thanks Kim for the thoughtful reply. I appreciate your passion and the points you make. I'd like to take a few moments to address each one. One thing to note however, is that this post is merely a marker along my journey, not necessarily a plan for the future. I've been known to make heretical, abstract, and bizarre statements in the past – but view through the context of an eclectic life well-lived, these posts make a little more sense.
"We need people like you to challenge the status quo."
I understand that. Ever since my brother told me that it was easier to change the church from the inside, than from the outside, I've been involved. That was over 20+ years ago. However, as one of my Seminary professors used to say: "It's easier to give birth than to raise the dead." I now understand how right he was. (more on this in a bit…)
"You want diversity but have no tolerance for those who do not have the same spiritual fire as you or it is not expressed in the same way."
I can understand your confusion, and I appreciate the opportunity to clarify this. I do value diversity, but what I'm looking at is direction. I don't care so much how people behave on the bus, I just want to know that the bus I'm on is going to the destination where I intend to arrive.
From your comments, it appears that you value church for it's safety and support. I see church more as a concept, not a place. I also see church as a standing army, ready to do battle against evil. It might have more to do with purpose and values. What are people looking for? What do they intend to get out of the experience?
Safety and recuperation are good things, but there has to be a purpose. To me, that purpose is to get back into the battle. For most, what I've observed, it is an end in of itself. That means we're not intending to arrive at the same destination. What happens on the bus, or how people behave, is irrelevant to me.
(to be continued)
You might want to check these guys out: http://thegodjourney.com/ or read
http://www.amazon.com/You-Dont-Want-Church-Anymor...
Thanks Phil! I added that to my Amazon wishlist. Looks like good stuff – and right along what I'm trying to say.
"Why not go with the wife and kids?"
This is a really good question. If my decision to stop attending were a permanent one, it would have more punch. But I've not made this a permanent choice.
I've been living in Adullum's Cave for several months – resting, recuperating, re-tooling, and re-visioning. God has given me permission to be here. I need the time. But I don't have permission to be here forever. Soon, I'll have to quit resting and start the battle again.
For my wife and daughter, the social aspects of church are very important. That is the way they are built. For me, the once a week church experience isn't as important. I need more alone time – and I miss the ways I used to spend Sabbath before I got involved in church leadership – about 19-20 years ago. In addition, I'm not a morning person, and I really shouldn't be around people before 10am. It's not good for anyone.
And, as I mentioned to my friend Brady, to me the greater good of protecting my kids from the mediocrity of churchianity, and instilling in them a passionate relationship with their Creator, far outweighs the benefits of a once a week experience. This is the part I'm really wrestling with and seeking to understand.
I know what's in the church, and what's outside. I just choose to be around those who are open to the transformational power of God. To me, it appears that people outside of church are more open to this change – and I can be more effective in my calling with those who are not governed by rules and traditions.
"what dress code? "
This is most likely a metaphor. I don't specifically remember talking about a "dress code," and a cursory review of the post doesn't pop this up – but most likely I was using this term, or alluding to it metaphorically. Relating it to a conformity of standards.
"Until you find or start the church that is a perfect fit for you personally"
)
I'm actually not looking for a perfect fit. I don't think that will exist on this side of eternity. However, I am looking for one that is going in the direction I feel called to go. (Indeed, as a certified introvert, I would always choose alone over gathering for the sake of gathering
I'm not looking for a church that is perfect for me. I am looking for one that has a God-sized vision. I'm looking for Godly leaders who can lead me – and where I don't naturally fall into leadership.
The first time I attended a 12-step meeting after moving to Riverside, CA, I was dismayed. My experiences in Portland, during the late 80s/early 90s had been much different. In Riverside, the group I first found met in an old church basement. The men there were barely hanging onto serenity, let alone sanity. They had taken shortcuts on the first five steps, and were wondering why the next seven weren't coming into place.
Upon my arrival, they acted as if they'd found a savior – but at the time, I was quite the mess and was in no place to lead anyone. I moved on until I found a group with some quality leadership.
Ultimately, I think that's what I'm missing. Spiritual leadership/mentoring – towards a truly God-sized vision.
"So there you have it, my humble opinion on the subject."
I do appreciate your viewpoint. It is helpful.
"I hope I see you Sabbath, the church could use more like you."
You won't see us this week as I'm preaching in Seaside.
And yes, you're right, the church could use more like us (in all humility). But there is a Native American saying that I really like:
I'm not sure I want to keep beating this horse. Kelso-Longview isn't a bad church. Scappoose isn't a bad church. I'm just not sure they are going the direction God is calling us – and I'm not sure they want to. I probably just need to shake the dust off and move on.
In all honesty, I've only had a couple of experiences in community that were all that – and only a slim portion of those were in a large congregation. I honestly believe that small groups are where real life change happens.
My primary focus, right now, is to establish a revenue stream. Once ai've secured an income, most likely we'll start a small group of some kind.
Thanks again Kim!
I read this with such a heavy heart. I walked away from the church at 19 came back with a desperate vengeance in my early 30's. Started a teen church several years later that managed to anger almost everyone Adventist and otherwise (even got myself a whole chapter in one of those off shoot written books about the Adventist denomination going to hell. <I am so proud of that chapter>).
But now over 50 I find myself continually frustrated with how for the most part we Adventists just don't get doing community. We believe we are saved by having "The Truth", there is something to that, but we know knowledge alone will not save us (at least I think we know that). I am a charismatic at heart. I listen sermons from non-Adventist pastors and they say and do things that are so powerful, that I could never say or do when I speak in front of Adventist Adults. . . . . . and yet . . . I love the Adventist Church with all my heart. I believe in the the original pillars (Sabbath, Soon Coming of Jesus, State of the Dead, the investigative judgment). I even believe most of the other stuff. But it is how we prioritize our beliefs.
I struggle, and I remember that I love this church. I love the gift of Sabbath. I love the loving compassionate picture of God that our understanding of the state of the dead portrays, I love the idea that my judgment will take place in heaven without my having to even witness it. I love that we are a church that recognizes that a Jesus life is about what happens after this world is over and what happens while we are alive.
So what do I do? I stay! I try to push as hard as I can without breaking people. I sit on my executive committee and suggest we need to work on community heads nod but not much happens, but I refuse to lose hope. I will go the GC next summer and even though I will be only one vote out of 2,400 I will do my tiny best to change this church from within. I will refuse to lose hope.
That being said, not everyone can. Ultimately we are saved because and only because we have a trusting relationship with Jesus Christ. Gary I pray that you will find a way to stay and help change us from within.
In the grip of grace
Thanks for your words Steve. I'm trying to think if we've ever met. I know we know some of the same folks. My friends Sam, Myronie, and Joe used to be at the Sunnyvale church down there. Plus, I have relatives in Sonoma, and my friend's the Cresses used to be in Placerville.
As I mentioned, I didn't grow up going to church, and after a short try at the legalism model, I too bailed around age 19 – then "came back with a desperate vengeance in my early 30s" also. While I may, or may not have received some bad press, Young & Restless Ministries certainly took its share of heat in the early 90s – and I'm sure that as Crosswalk, it continues to take flak.
Like you also, I appreciate all those things you mentioned. While starting, and leading, Common Ground, we really struggled with some of those significant theological and traditional issues. With over 50% unchurched attendance, we could not afford to coast. I believe we (my wife, the leadership team, and I) came out of that prayerful, thoughtful, Bible-based analysis stronger and more determined than ever.
Strike one came when the organization remained true to the original financial support contract. Despite the great successes we were seeing in Colorado Springs, it was frustrating to know that there was no will, or nerve, to reallocate resources from ministries that are not effective, into ministries that are. So we moved.
Strike two came this year when I was terminated for trying to empower the disenfranchised and forgotten – who also happened to have no political capital. I expected to take heat locally, but I didn't expect administration to cave.
Strike three is the realization that most churches are coasting. There is a disconnect between the passion of the pastor and his/her leader's priorities. It is hard to watch my friends dial-back their message, scale back their vision, and tone down their passion – for the sake of not offending the status quo. (and after what I and my family have been through in the last two years, I don't really blame them.)
I've been trying to stay for over 20 years Mike. But, sometimes, after the horse dies, one just has to get off. No amount of flailing is going to move that dead horse.
Hi again Gary:
I am sure we have common friends but I kind of don't think we have met.
I do understand what you are saying. I just started a masters program through Andrews, the first class was a one week intensive on the development of Adventist Theology taught by George Knight. It was a terrific class. The final was over at 9 pm on Thursday night and Friday morning at 5:30 I was on an airplane to Canada to help with an outreach effort. The contrast was so striking. Week 1 was listening to the history of some really unkind unhelpful debates about debatable theological points. After 10 days in Canada, I could not tell you what the theology of the leaders was, except Jesus, and helping others to know him.
This is really the crux of the problem we face in Adventism, we have become so focused having correct theology and living a correct lifestyle that even when we are trying to show people Jesus, we have wrapped it with so many rules and conditions that getting to Jesus is very very difficult. I say this as one who's Adventist Theology is pretty conservative, but I find myself more and more convinced that I need to show people Jesus and then let people explore and learn within the context of that Jesus relationship.
I am thinking we ought to figure out how to plant a church together. . . .
I am convinced, that an amazing Adventist church could be grown by creating a community that gives meaning to the affluent, by creating opportunities for them to change the lives of the less fortunate, which is ultimately what Jesus did while on this earth. If the driving passion was helping others come into a saving relationship with Jesus, the theology would largely take care of itself.
As a last point, the single thing I find most valuable in looking at Adventist history is that even Ellen White was willing to accept and even saw as healthy, theological differences. She had two plea's: Be nice to each other as you disagree and look at what Scripture says. Good advice for us today.
In the grip of grace.
SM
I've been saying for years that I wouldn't leave the Church – unless they threw me out. Which, in a sense, is what just happened. Martin Luther didn't leave, Gallileo didn't leave, Paul, nor Jesus didn't leave – they were all thrown out though.
George Knight is awesome, isn't he? I loved that class – and the book he wrote on the same topic. Understanding the shifts in direction, vision, and values is quite enlightening. I believe that a lot of the people who are struggling to hold onto the status quo, would be amazed to learn that the current status looks nothing like it did 50, 100, or 150 years ago. While the fundemental theology hasn't really changed, the way it is applied, and the rituals (spoken, unspoken, written, and unwritten) are all very different…. very different.
Looking at things systemically or symptomatically is a good start. I truly believe that the majority of people who reject religion are doing so based on the inadequacies of the Church – not so much on the requirements of the Gospel. However, with that being said, the Gospel, and Jesus, are stumbling blocks – and are often perceived as pure lunacy.
Sometimes I wonder if the Church has been preempted by those who are seeking a refuge, but are unwilling to really get to the heart of the matter – and those outside of the church are honestly seeking Truth (upper case), but are unwilling to play the games of church. I think this may be why a more individualized (cafeteria-style), Eastern-mysticism religion is so popular in today's culture. It's certainly the direction I'm leaning.
I'm all about planting churches! I'm leaning more towards the "house church" model. Or even a loosely organized small group. I'm not quite sure what this means – or what it looks like….yet!?
As you've most likely discerned, it is the cacophony of values that frustrates me – not theology. I have no problems with varying doctrines and/or theology. I might not leave permanently, but I might. Whatever I do will not be based on my personal desires – it will be based on divine leading. I just want to journey with people who are willing to do what it takes to know and encounter God – in the deepest, most authentic, intimate, and experiential relationship possible. Even if that scares me to death!
Indeed, Scripture has to be our guide.
Thanks for the dialog!
G
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